User talk:AKB

Hey, welcome to my talk page!

Global changes in the last 24 hrs? And a couple questions...

Hi AKB New to this Wiki editing thang so forgive the ignorance. I have a couple questions if you don't mind.

Changes to global page layout within the last 24hrs? Yesterday I populated near all of the Serpentis System (some of Serpentis III had been done), by using the template of the Jemison page everything started to look great. I uploaded images grabbed from my Xbox (that's a feat in itself), cleaned them up also using the guidelines as best I could, such as the naming convention etc. I did use 'planet' and 'moon' to disseminate between them (question within a question here...should they all be nominated 'planet' in the naming convention or did I do right).

This morning when I came back to see if I had a reply from another user (which I did), about his approval to change the image he had on Serpentis III being 16:9 to follow the 1:1 format for the images I'd entered for the rest of the system, he replied, "go for it". But then I noticed the images have moved from the being at the top of the righthand spine of information to the lefthand side of the page. I also notice the image captions are empty and just show '{{{ }}}' whereas yesterday they seemed fine. Please tell me what I did wrong or what am I missing?

Apologies for the long-winded couple questions... I just wanted to be sure I didn't break anything yesterday. Also if this was the wrong place to ask this question, apologies... still learning the ropes.

PS... Please disregard this... my desktop browser cache acted up. Following the topic about changing the image of the planet from 16:9 to 1:1 to conform with the other planet/moon images I added the new image to the system however the appearance of the planet on the page is warped and I don't have a reason why it would do this?

Tropolite (talk) 19:11, 9 October 2023 (EDT)

Biome table on Planet/Moon page

The first post was too long to add any more questions to it so here is another. On the planet pages I've added the 'Biome table', (found on the Jemison page), and used it as a guide when populating the pages I've been working on, primarily the Serpentis System.

The Biome table has as its last column 'Minerals' and I see that as superfluous and trying to populate that column would be excruciating to do. Can this column be dropped?

Tropolite (talk) 22:52, 9 October 2023 (EDT)

We might be nearing a solution to this specific problem, where we will be able to determine exactly what minerals can be found in each biome, and then list them all with a bot. So don't worry about filling them out, but it'd be nice to copy them over. --AKB (talk) 10:33, 10 October 2023 (EDT)

Thanks for the update, appreciate it. Two things I noticed, if you can confirm, Jeancey made a couple minor changes to the Serpentis VI-b details;

1. Changed the image name from File:SF-moon-Serpentis VI-b.jpg to File:SF-planet-Serpentis VI-b.jpg. Can I take this as name all planets/moons as "planet" in the naming convention?
2. Jeancey removed the rarity tag in the Benzene resource. I take it this variable is no longer necessary? I will go through the previous pages and take these out if that is the case.

Is there a better place to discuss changes/edits in the SF Wiki? I don't want to harass you continually and I should ask the editor of the page to be fair.

And finally, is there a planet page that is complete and properly formatted so I can use this to learn the code quicker (currently using Jemison as my goto page).

Thanks for your help and sorry to be a pest.

Tropolite (talk) 19:49, 10 October 2023 (EDT)

You're not a pest at all!

Yeah the plan is to standardize all images of the planets themselves to SF-planet-[Planet/Moon Name].[File Extension].

Not sure about the benzene resource thing off the top of my head, unfortunately.

It's perfectly fine to use talk pages to discuss development of the wiki. We also maintain a Discord server for slightly more casual/real time discussion about the wiki and Starfield itself.

Jemison is probably the best example at the moment of the direction we want planet pages to go. Unfortunately as there isn't a really great previous example of planets in Bethesda games, it's sort of an ongoing process of us learning what information is unique and can be presented on these pages in a meaningful way. For example, in the future we may learn more about how planet generation works, and discover that it is a fixed seed, so all the cells will actually be the same for every player. That would greatly change how we go about documenting planets. --AKB (talk) 06:04, 11 October 2023 (EDT)

Appreciate your feedback it's very helpful AKB.

Don't worry I will become a pest soon enough :)

I've been on a learning curve working on the wiki ... it's fun. I'm a retired IT Professional and use to Web Design and development as part of a great bundle of things an IT career throws at you. Reading through as much help files as I can I probably should have put this whole thread on your Discuss page, not directly on your Talk page.

And that leads me to my last question for the current hour, what is the protocol for replacing images on the Planet pages? I've populated two Systems (Nirah and currently working on Tau Ceti), and there is one image in each that have been uploaded there for some time. I've created a talk on the two uploaders pages (one asking approval, and one suggesting I will replace the image), but in both circumstances I suggested I will add a Note and a Gallery including their images at the bottom of the specific planet pages. One image is from the Starfield Direct promotion on Ka'zaal and the other is on Tau Ceti VIII-b being a gameplay screenshot running on the planet. (And here I've learnt you can abbreviate 'Starfield' in the tags to SF ... nice).

I don't want to peeve anyone by arbitrarily replacing their image if protocol doesn't permit, but when I'm on a roll editing I really don't want to bypass one page here, and another there. Check out the surrounding planets with the graphics I've uploaded. Any suggestions in this would be helpful.

Thanks AKB, I'll check out the Discord server. Appreciate your time.

Cheers Tropolite (talk) 07:20, 11 October 2023 (EDT)

It's fine to upload over/replace images with a higher quality one. No need to keep it if it doesn't serve a specific purpose anymore. --AKB (talk) 09:51, 12 October 2023 (EDT)

Fauna pages, additional pages, System pages...

Hi AKB

I was hoping to get through today without adding more to your pot, but alas...

Fauna Pages

Noticing there are numbers of Fauna/Flora pages yet to create I've started to create basic pages as I'm updating Planet pages. Are you aware there are two Biome sections on these pages? This would have to be in the actual background of Fauna page creation as there is only one Biome listed in the details I'm inputting. This also leads me to a related question.

Fauna on multiple planets

I've come across an issue that you are most likely aware of, and that is Fauna such as Carasnail Scavenger for instance. They are located in Jemison and Serpentis IV, however these fauna have different Biomes, different drops and other different attributes. Clearly not able to combine these two on the one fauna page in the format the template is constructed currently. Perhaps a basic fauna page for their names and then have a table per planet they reside in perhaps - including planet name, biomes, drop, temperament, Non-lethal harvesting and/or Outpost production allowed or none. The latter options could simply be checkboxes indicating these options available.

This leads me to the last topic for today with any luck...

Other - suggestions/creation?

There are two options that are currently missing from the basic template for fauna/flora - Outpost production available, Non-lethal harvesting, or None. Would it be worth generating a Category page for Non-Lethal/Outpost production availability? Perhaps with a basic table, including Fauna - Flora (2 subcategories), location (planet/moon), Resource/s, Non-lethal/Outpost Available/None as an example? I'm not sure how these Category pages are generated whether manually populated or auto populated.

Lastly while rummaging around in SFWiki world of pages I found what looked like older basic templates for the planets and found that the Starfield logo would be autopopulated onto planet pages if the Faction tag was set to 'None'. I thought that looked great on the systems I've populated but I also added it to the System Infobox but it's not recognized on System pages. I only come across factions that have a whole system under their control, so is it worth adding the faction tag to the System Infobox too? It would make sense as far as I've seen.

Jeepers, sorry another longwinded slab of questions/comments. I'll stop now.

Cheers Tropolite (talk) 03:12, 12 October 2023 (EDT)

Yeah we're doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff to create all the fauna/flora pages via a bot run. Here is an example of how we're currently planning on displaying that information in a new section on the fauna/flora pages in the near future: link

Basically the idea is to have every fauna/flora with the exact same name be a page, with variants listed in their own section as you can see in that example. This means that for most examples like this, the creature infobox will mostly be empty as that information will actually be in the Variant section.

As for the suggestion about the system infobox, yeah that makes more sense the way you're suggesting. --AKB (talk) 09:51, 12 October 2023 (EDT)

Thanks for sharing the link AKB. I'm not sure how the bot run works, where the data comes from, or if you can insert the data into custom made tables to show relevant information instead of just a dump of data (I'm guessing you can from my previous experiences with Web design), but I've forgotten much since my days of crafting pages for the web. Personally, the dump of the data, looks as appealing as looking at raw database data. It has plenty information, but, you know..?

Then of course there is the question of where to add the minor additional resources (if known) that can be harvested or acquired from fauna - you may get two to three different resources where there is usually one basic resource to each fauna.

For exercise purposes I might attempt to build a table template for this variant section in my discuss section, see what I can come up with. If I come up with anything worthwhile I'll post a link and see what you think? (Doing this for my own experience boosting more importantly). 

Definitely needs a basic Fauna/Flora base page with variant section is the way to go.

I guess I should really go learn to use Discord, and start using that as you suggested. Another app to deal with. :)

Cheers Tropolite (talk) 19:43, 12 October 2023 (EDT)

A quick note AKB, I've created a rough table layout that probably would be all we need. I've put it in my Discuss section. Whether it's useful to you, or not that's you and the other admins choice. Just a suggestion.

Cheers Tropolite (talk) 03:15, 13 October 2023 (EDT)

Problem with Harvestable cell in the data dump recently...

Hi AKB

Sorry for hitting your page again but I didn't know where to bring it to the Admins attention.

The recent bot drop of the Fauna data has a problem with the Harvestable cell in the tables. Today I've been populating the Volii System and noticed the data in the Fauna pages. If you look at the Carasnail Grazer page you'll notice each cell of the Harvestable option is blank/empty yet in the actual data the Decaran I and Volii Epsilon planets should be Yes, and Zelazny II should be No yet each of these specific cells are empty.

I'd say just by looking at the data the problem may be in the two differing names, on the page, Harvestable and in the data, Harvest?

I shouldn't think that this glitch would only be on this one page. Hopefully this can be solved quickly.

Cheers Tropolite (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2023 (EDT)

Thanks for pointing this out, massively appreciated! Yeah it was all of the pages, which thankfully made it easy to correct. This was probably just a little hiccup with the botrun, and I fixed it by just renaming the template field (if you're wrong, stay wrong, after all). --AKB (talk) 09:41, 14 October 2023 (EDT)

map is not working

just asking if there is anything you can do regarding the map--204.234.22.245 16:36, 5 December 2023 (EST)

Sorry to hear you are having trouble! On a quick test it is working at the moment. Can you describe what is wrong, if it is still not working for you? --AKB (talk) 18:45, 5 December 2023 (EST)

TypeError: e.use(...).values is not a function --Ythv (talk) 20:15, 5 December 2023 (EST) that is the error im experiencing--204.234.22.245 10:51, 6 December 2023 (EST)

Thanks, reported the bug and it is being looked at! --AKB (talk) 12:30, 6 December 2023 (EST)

Companions affinity tables

Somebody had gone to a lot of trouble combining the 4 Companion reactions in handy tables on the individual mission pages. I've been linking to those sections on those pages. They seem to be more useful than a massive duplication of all the possible reactions on each Companion page. Out of context, they don't provide very useful information, just bloat. Is this a step toward verifying each mission page and deleting the duplicate information as we go?

On the other hand, having the Dialogue between companions duplicated on each page seems useful. How do you make such nice wikitable dumps of conversations?

I've been using raw tags for affinity icons, as the templates somehow break the wikitable syntax. (Will watch for reply here.)
DayDreamer (talk) 23:54, 24 August 2024 (EDT)

Each mission page's affinity table is definitely accurate, that information was pulled directly from the game files. Ultimately we'll want that the majority of this information to be incorporated into the dialogue sections of the major companion pages, with just a shorter summary section of general things they like.

I can explain how to do the dialogue tables as efficiently and easily as possible. Are you on Discord, it'd probably be quicker to explain it there (I actually did that just last night there)? If not I can write an explanation here, I'll just need to upload a few images for reference. --AKB (talk) 08:40, 26 August 2024 (EDT)

Not on Discord (despise Discord). Of course, some of the wiki information in the tables here is just data garbage-in garbage-out because the developer never filled the fields with details. Actually, I've discovered missing information in various tables, and have been hand step-by-step verifying as I've done the quests.
DayDreamer (talk) 11:37, 26 August 2024 (EDT)

Apologies for the delay getting back to you on this, I've had a few extreme distractions this week (mainly my cat got outside and that has basically completely sapped my attention). Here is a quick explanation for how to efficiently create dialogue tables.

First, while this will be less necessary as your familiarity increases, it can be good practice to get a feel for these conversations by going in-game, and taking screenshots of each stage of a conversation. This can also be done to document the conversations themselves, but it is less efficient due to the amount of time it takes to write out all of the dialogue. There are faster methods.

To do this faster, you will need the Construction Kit for Starfield. There are other alternatives if that's unavailable to you, like a database dump of the dialogue or SFEdit, but only the former is anywhere close to a practical alternative. Continuing this guide, I will assume you are using the CK for now (if you need a database dump of the dialogue, please ask me and I can help you acquire one).

Now open up the CK and load up all the files you'll need. After you do that, you'll want to go to the Quests tab. Most dialogue in the game is controlled by hidden quests, usually named after the character, city, or occasion when the line will be used. Of course a lot of dialogue is just in the actual quests as well! You can use the filter option and sort tabs to find what you are looking for quicker.

Next, to find most of the conversational style dialogue you'll want to navigate to the scenes tab:

So this is the conversation flow. And if you double click each individual line, it will bring up the edit box. This also automatically highlights the text itself.

So double click, and ctrl+c and you have copied that text.

So if you have two monitors, you can set up this and the wiki window side by side, or you can refit both boxes until they fit in one. Or if you like it more, just use ctrl+tab to quickly switch windows. If you only use the browser and CK, just hitting ctrl+tab once will cause them to switch.

If any of those techniques aren't clear, you can just ask for more clarification.

Finally, for convenience you'll want to copy-paste this table and modify it for each individual situation you run into.

{|class=wikitable
!Player Dialogue (Progresses Conversation) !! Response
|-
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|-
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|-
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|-
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|-
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|-
|}

But then, with this setup done, you can quickly do this:

Example

"Is that right, cowboy? Went on a trip, huh?" (male pronouns)

"Is that right? Went on a trip, huh?" (unspecified pronouns)

"Is that right, cowgirl? Went on a trip, huh?" (female pronouns)

Player Dialogue (Progresses Conversation)	Response
You could call it that.	Ha! That fun, huh? Not the most gentle push into the great mysteries of space, but hey... been there!
I'm fine. Nothing to talk about.	All right. Little disappointing, not gonna lie, but reveling in the "weird" of space isn't everyone's idea of a good time. I get it.
How would you know about that?	Well, you could say that the infinite possibilities of the universe are full of everything but coincidences.

Just need to add some quotation formatting and explanation to the three greeting variants, and this entire section of the conversation is completed. And that legitimately took like one to two minutes. --AKB (talk) 18:19, 1 September 2024 (EDT)

Conversations

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, I'm an old CK hand, and UESP, and Unofficial Patch contributor. Also, one of the early wikimedia software developers, so pretty familiar with tables. (I contributed some of the earliest so-called parser functions.) I'd hoped for an automated dump method using Character->Export Dialogue. Copy line by line explains why some are missing. As mentioned above, I've been fixing them as noticed, because I'm mostly just doing them as I play the game.
DayDreamer (talk) 21:32, 2 September 2024 (EDT)

While I'm thinking about it, the dialogue scenes have [AF] for affinity events. But I've not been able to figure out a command for showing them. Unlike [Flirt], they are not in the actual text, and unlike [C], they aren't in a Conditions list. They don't appear in the Response table. Instead, they are in a little box on the bottom of the Topic Info. I'm having a difficult time matching them to the AFFE forms. So far, the best I'm able to do is backwards: click an AFFE, ask for use info, then click there to bring up the related dialogue.
DayDreamer (talk) 21:48, 2 September 2024 (EDT)

Nevermind, I've found it. Bring up the Action at the top, then click on each response, and there it shows the affinity event, and the "..." next to it shows all the companion events. Not easy, but possible.
DayDreamer (talk) 21:55, 2 September 2024 (EDT)

Working on Sam Coe, I've added a column for likes/dislikes, and end/exit (X), and loops (&, short for et which means "and"). That makes things align better. But how to know whether the response continues the conversation or loops? I'm just marking after testing.... [Heavy sigh] Skyrim loops were so much easier to see, with the continuations listed in the upper right corner, and ending was the 'G' goodbye flag.
DayDreamer (talk) 06:02, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

That's a nice way of doing it! I think something that says what it does slightly more explictly will ultimately be better, but still plenty of room for experimentation to figure that out I think. As far as what loops/continues/exits, I found explicit references connecting one to another, but I've been mainly relying on having experienced these conversations before to figure it out. For example, usually there will be questions as the final options that don't advance it, although not always. The only one that's super obvious for sure have been exits, which have always had annotation saying it ends the conversation (and there's usually only one, and context makes it easy as well). --AKB (talk) 22:09, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

Still working through Sam Coe as he talks. Slow going, and he has more conversations than anybody else, which means it takes more "likes" and more hours. But I've found the branching/looping mechanism. It's elegant, yet so complex it cannot be done in a table. It's a directed graph.

• The like/dislike is usually on the player side.
• It can instead be on the response. Then, the [AF] shows there. Instead click the [NPC Response] bar above to see it. There are a few of these.
• Both sides also have usually empty form fields: Scene and phase. It would be insane to use it on the player side, so hopefully it's ignored there.
• On the response side, that shows the branch/loop. For a loop, the Scene is the same scene, and the Phase is the same phase.
• But it can be any quest, and any scene, and any phase. Powerful.
• Requires a lot of discipline to not screw up. My guess is they used storyboards, like a professional script. They are getting more sophisticated.

There's no way we'll ever be able to cover this in simple tables. I'm doing my best with bullets and [or]. Now nested in tables.

DayDreamer (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2024 (EDT)

---

Here's the example table I'm using:

:''"___"''
:''"___"''
:''"___"''
{|class=wikitable
! ... !! Player !! Response
|-
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|-
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|-
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|-
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|}

<br /> '''''[or]'''''

DayDreamer (talk) 18:45, 9 September 2024 (EDT)

Conversations completed

Thus far, I've completed the conversation 1-5 tables for Andreja and Barrett, but not their later Temple and Starborn parts (as I've no save files to test them). I've found and documented several bugs. Please take a look. I'll go over Sam and Sarah next.
DayDreamer (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2024 (EDT)

Fantastic! Taking a look, as I still have more to add to them as well. --AKB (talk) 20:19, 14 September 2024 (EDT)

Okay, I've completed the numbered conversation tables for Sam (1-7) and Sarah (1-5), but not their later Temple and Starborn parts. Sam was relatively easy, even though he has more scenes. The different techniques by apparently different editors is confusing. I've matched the CK more exactly, undoing come of the elisions that you'd tried. There were sections of missing data, and it was hard to figure out with the sentences combined or duplicated. Hoping this will help other editors follow along, and casual users appreciate the underlying mechanisms, while more readable than the CK.

I have a Sarah Temple save, and a save ready to go on her Starborn, so I'll do those next.
DayDreamer (talk) 21:37, 15 September 2024 (EDT)

Starfield:Neon Main Dialogue

For some odd reason, this was added to the Keys table. Why? I cannot find a KEYM record in it. OK to remove and undo the redirect?
DayDreamer (talk) 22:00, 2 September 2024 (EDT)

Yeah, that's super weird. That table was created via pulling the KEYM records, so not sure how that made it in. Removing it is fine. --AKB (talk) 15:02, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

Done.
DayDreamer (talk) 15:27, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

(Office) or (office) or (Place) or (place)?

I'd moved to match the usual lower capitalization, then found more. They are referenced by the auto-people templates, so one way or the other would be best. UPDATE: I've checked all the businesses in both Neon towers, and the names are all over the place. All 4 variants are used. The game savefiles use Store or HQ here, not office. However, it uses Ryugin HQ on the 3 store 3rd floor in Ryugin, and also the upper floors, so some sort of better naming scheme will be needed.
DayDreamer (talk) 16:21, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

Should be (office) or (place) if we're adding the bracketed modifier, so (office) and (place). If there is an official name, we should use that instead of course, but using something hub page to talk about the whole building would be good, like I see you did Ryujin Tower. --AKB (talk) 22:04, 4 September 2024 (EDT)

Ryugin Tower is now done. I've looked at the actual LCTN records. For those that needed a better qualifier, I've used (Neon) to match the existing Starfield:Tranquilitea (Neon).

1. I've found an error, Starfield:Gunslinger's Guide 04, listed as a place in Starfield:Ikuchi Market, but it is not obvious to fix. Why? How? Is there a way to reset the internal list?
2. I've found an outlier, Starfield:Nina Hart, who is listed here in Neon people, but Jemison in the CK quest data. Apparently, she's transferred in a quest, but her home REF and most of her lines in Jemison.
3. Anyway, there are more (Place) and (Office) in Jemison. So that's next on my list. A bit of consistency will go a long way. There are now more folks showing up in the {People}.

DayDreamer (talk) 11:02, 5 September 2024 (EDT)

Companion dialogue subpages

A month or so ago, I'd copy and pasted all the dialogue into their multiple pages. Then, somebody edited one page, but not the matching copy. No good, too hard to maintain.

Therefore, I've tried moving them to subpages. Then they can be transcluded into their 2 (or 3 or 4) pages. I've only done Sarah + Andreja so far, so it can easily be reverted. See Starfield:Sarah_Morgan#Andreja_and_Sarah. Is this OK?

Moreover, I'd a hard time coming up with a consistent naming scheme (turns out Bethesda has missing and duplicate quest names which technically shouldn't be allowed), so several were moved to match the CK editor ID that should always be unique (the CK automatically handles duplicates by adding DUPLICATE).

I don't yet have delete permission for my own created pages, and I'm not a developer here. Marked with {{speed}}.
DayDreamer (talk) 05:10, 29 September 2024 (EDT)

I've deleted the extra pages.

It's a workable option for this scenario, although ultimately that content would be unlikely to be updated often and it would reasonably make sense to just duplicate it to both pages. I would suggest the pages get a noinclude section explaining the purpose of the page in case someone lands on them. --AKB (talk) 14:35, 29 September 2024 (EDT)

Thanks. I've made a header template {{Quest scene subpage}} populating Category:Quest scene subpages starting from other templates. Since it is only meant to be used on subpages, it cannot have a /Doc subpage (no nested noinclude), so its very short documentation is in the noinclude section. I'd tried to make it automatically collapsed, but not yet working. Whether or not collapsed, I'd also like it to show the usual VTE bar, so that folks can view or edit the subpage directly, and the collapsed header will serve as a line between blocks. I'll keep poking at it, but could you take a look?
DayDreamer (talk) 16:45, 1 October 2024 (EDT)

Hey, DayDreamer. You should be able to transplant the docs you've got there now to Template:Quest scene subpage/Doc, as usual, and it should work. Where you use the template won't make a difference.

For collapsible tables, all you need to do is add the "collapsible" class to it and optionally the "collapsed" class to make it start out collapsed (e.g., class="hiddentable collapsible collapsed"). Those don't work in preview mode but they should after you've saved. If they don't, let me know and I'll see if there's some code we need to copy from UESP or something.

Lastly, for the VTE links, have a look at the {{Navbar}} template. It's been a long time since I've used it myself, so I don't recall exactly how it works, but it looks like the examples show how basic VTE links work. If there's anything else, let me know, either on my page or just keep it here on AKB's. – Robin Hood ^(talk) 18:46, 2 October 2024 (EDT)

Category sort convention for templates that populate categories?

Over on wikipedia, tilda and Tau (uppercase Τ, lowercase τ or τ) are used a lot. I've tried uppercase Tau, but here it looks too much like capital T (in Firefox). Both lowercase Tau look identical here (in Firefox), even though they are nicely different in the wikipedia article (in Firefox).

Shall we standardize on tilda ('~') for ease of typing?
DayDreamer (talk) 19:08, 4 October 2024 (EDT)

That sounds fine to me on the surface, although I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to just yet. If you give me an example I'll be able to give you a more definitive response :) --AKB (talk) 02:11, 5 October 2024 (EDT)

{{Quest scene subpage}} populating Category:Quest scene subpages, now with tilda.
DayDreamer (talk) 21:15, 5 October 2024 (EDT)

Bug template

Had not been updated with any fixedby initialisms. Looking at the existing dregs of what you copied from elsewhere and comparing with UESP, it seemed "OP" was "Official Patch".

Also, the namespace test (for Skyrim) was wrong. Changed to a new parameter, afktrack, because that's also used for Fallout 4, Morrowind, Oblivion, et alia. Left the old trackerid for compatibility, although probably not actually used anywhere and could be removed.

However, UESP has a nicer sentence layout. Instead of "version <foo> of the <bar>", it uses "the <bar> version <foo>". Any reason that's not used here?
DayDreamer (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2024 (EDT)

Thanks for the suggestions for it. Will look at it shortly! --AKB (talk) 18:34, 23 October 2024 (EDT)